Faith schools admission policies

[Chris Worfolk]

Has anyone else seen all the news about the admission policies of faith schools?

[Jenna]

no, but the topic of this thread has reminded me of an issue I wanted to raise.

While humanists tend to be opposed to religious schools, they seem to see 'humanist schools' like the one in Uganda, in a more favourable light. Is there necessarily a contradiction or hypocrisy here?

Your views please! :)

[grammar king mike]

Off topic in the first reply, loving it! I award 5 OT points to Jenna.

I also haven't heard anything about faith school's admissions policies recently (I went to a faith school too and still have links there), but I'll be looking it up soon.

Anyway to answer Jenna's question, no I don't think there is any hypocrisy. For a start, humanism isn't a religion! But more widely than that, think about what humanism is. It's about no dogma, independent thinking, skeptical inquiry, reason and compassion. I think all of these are entirely appropriate in an educational environment, whereas the religious tradition of suppressing science, a dubious moral viewpoint and dogmatic learning is not.

In short, our educational system should teach us how to think, not what to think.

[norman]

The story Chris was referring to can be found here (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article3671157.ece).

It is basically a report on how many of the county's top faith schools are flagrantly breaking the law when it comes to their admissions policy. Their remit allows them to select pupils on a basis of faith (should be illegal in my opinion, but thats not the point here...) but the law forbids them from targetting any specific socio-economic group. The reports claims that these schools are requesting a "donation" of nearly of £1000 per pupil per term towards the cost of teaching - basically stopping those from a poorer background from going to school! Not exactly charitable!!

Admittedly not all the schools in the report are faith schools, but most of them are. A full list can be found here (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article3671110.ece).

[grammar king mike]

I would add that it's a very small number, 6 schools out of 96 surveyed were involved in the "cash for places" part. Yes, those instances are shocking, but I don't think it's indicative.

Like I say, I went to a faith school and it was the norm every year to ask for some kind of donation. It was entirely voluntary, and most people gave just a fiver or something. But that was done during term time, not on the application form. That's not right.

[norman]

its 5%, which is quite a proportion to be honest. The fact that they also tend to be the better performing ones is also relevant in my opinion - basically good education is only available to rich kids of a particular faith.

[Jenna]

Hmmm but do you have a problem with schools charging per se? Ie. what about public schools? Yes they offer the best education and it's only open to the relatively wealthy...but isn't that what we get in a market economy?

[grammar king mike]

Just because it's to be expected doesn't make it ok. We live in a meritocracy (or at least should, IMO) and the right to education is a human right, it shouldn't be bought like a commodity.

[norman]

Unfortunately this is where I have to wear my hypocrite shoes as I attended public school - admittedly on a Government Assisted Place (the tax payer paid my fees :( ).

I have no problem with schools charging. Most public schools are compelled by law to waive fees for a certain percentage of students with a certain academic ability. The fact remains that the faith schools in question are chartered to provide education free of charge! Wrapping up the fees as a "donation" is nothing short of extortion! This is surely against whatever code of ethics the administrators of the school supposedly prescribe.

If they were fee paying schools this would not be an issue. It is the fact that they are state supported schools in the public sector so MUST be run in the public interest!

The sooner state-supported faith schools are abolished the better!!

[Jenna]

I don't know if you guys would be interested in opening this discussion up to the issue of Religious Edu in schools?
It's a particular bugbear of mine because the introduction of citizenship education has meant that many RE teachers teach citizenship now, threatening? it's potential to undo any existing C of E religious ethos in the school.
Do you think as I do that Citizenship education could replace RE?

[norman]

That is a slippery path indeed, the content would have to be right for it to work.

I think it is important that religion is taught in schools. One of my bugbears is the ignorance that the general public demonstrate when it comes to religion. I think that all major religions and a cross-section of smaller, more obscure religions should be taught to all Key Stage 3 pupils with no particular emphasis on any one of them. How can somebody criticize something they know nothing of? More importantly, how can someone reject something they know nothing of?

I enjoyed RE at school, particularly the debate on the ethical and moral stance of the penal system etc.

Having said that, and referring back to a previous post of mine, I have never experienced state provided religious education. I was taught CofE inspired RE at a privately funded school with strong connections to the local CofE community and a fairly strong religious ethos. Although, my RE teacher in years 8 and 9 was also our first team rugby coach who was know to act well outside the law... so maybe the Christian values of my school were somewhat overstated! lol

[grammar king mike]

I think children should certainly be taught *about* religion. It's an important part of our history, culture and heritage. But they should be taught about a big range of religions rather than just one or the occasional two if you're lucky. I'm sure Paganism would be a really great unit.

[norman]

Absolutely.

[Chris Worfolk]

I'm sure Paganism would be a really great unit.

That might not be a good thing though. The advantage of the current system is that kids are literally bored out of religion ;).

[Tessa K]

Hi Jenna

I think that admissions and the teaching of RE are two separate issues. Admissions is about faith schools keeping out the 'undesirable' kids - ie those who are likely to drag down its results. Those kids just happen to be, on the whole, ones whose parents are less well off and kids who have special needs.

The teaching of RE is what takes place once they have cherry-picked their pupils. In some schools, it is more like RI - religious instruction aka indoctrination. We've had some terrible stories from parents about what teachers have said to their kids who dared to question, for example.

It's true that RE turns a lot of kids off religion, but those from highly religious families need an opportunity to question the beliefs of their parents by learning about other faiths and the possibility of having no faith at all - so avoiding the subject all together won't necessarily work. Teaching about all faiths in the neutral context of Cultural Studies or Critical Thought would be the best option.

There is also the problem of kids being taught that ethics and morality come only from religion so it's important that they are taught that there are alternative ways to lead a 'good' life.